Anthony Lamacchia is not directly involved in the battle between Giroux, Compass and MLS. But as the dispute moves from MRED in Chicago to Realtrax in the Southeast, the Massachusetts brokerage owner said he is watching developments closely.
Mr. LaMacchia is the leader of a large regional brokerage firm that operates across eight MLSs, making him the type of brokerage owner who could be directly affected if disputes over private listings and portal distribution spread beyond the industry’s largest firms. And if his market’s MLS cuts off Zillow’s feed, citing Compass or the broader listing dispute, Lamacchia told Inman he plans to sue.
This interview has been edited for length and clarity.
Inman: Last week, MRED blocked Zillow’s feed, and now Realtracks has threatened to do the same. What is happening now? Do you think there are others?
Anthony Lamacchia: I was surprised to hear that MLS would do it alone. It shows that there’s some kind of friction between that particular MLS and Zillow that maybe has nothing to do with the bigger picture, or maybe it does. I don’t know the details.
With MRED, it was clear that Compass was pulling the strings. It’s been three weeks since they signed the contract. So I don’t understand why the same thing happens with Realtracks. But the reason this stuff is being talked about is because of Robert Refkin and his efforts to attract more business to his company.
I respect Robert. I respect his company. We do a lot of business with his company. So, while he is a very worthy competitor that I respect, I disagree with him on this particular subject. I don’t think it’s good for either the seller or the buyer. In fact, not only do I think so, I know it’s not in the best interest of either the seller or the buyer.
Most of the time, if the property doesn’t get maximum exposure, the seller doesn’t get maximum exposure, and not all buyers have access. That’s a problem. That’s not good for consumers.
It appears more brokerages, or at least brokerage leaders, are gearing up for pre-marketing. What do you think about it?
LaMacchia: They’re not necessarily warmed up to it. They’re doing it because they feel they have to, and they don’t want it to look like Compass has some kind of competitive advantage that they don’t have. Because it can harm intermediaries in their recruitment and relationships with sellers.
There are always situations where a seller says, “I won’t list it for a month. If you want to sell it to someone you know, that’s fine, but I don’t want to sell it until July.” And so are our agents. It has been done since the beginning of the real estate industry.
what robert [Reffkin] Descriptions vary widely. He wants the ability to list when he wants to never list on the public market and only sell his property on Compass.com. We’re not trying to do that. We want our properties to have maximum exposure. There are areas where he has so much market share that I understand why he’s trying to do that, but again, I know it’s not good for either the seller or the buyer.
If Compass were to hoard all Compass Company listings in the area where I do business, we and other brokerages would have to do the same. If they don’t share theirs, we’re not going to share ours. And if you’re a big enough company like mine, we have the power to trouble them.
What if your MLS shuts down your Zillow feed due to pressure from Compass and the broader Zillow-Compass battle?
LaMacchia: If Compass were to somehow persuade any of our MLSs to block the Zillow feed, I would definitely sue that MLS and Compass. I’m not going to stand for our listings not getting maximum exposure. We also do not endorse competitors that influence where our listings appear.
I’m sure others did the same thing in the MRED situation, but it only lasted about 30 hours, so it was over by the time most people knew what was going on. However, if something happens in a market where we operate where a competitor is influencing an MLS (be it by force or influence) to stop the listing feed to Zillow, I will be suing Compass and its MLS within the next few days.
Is your position on Zillow’s side or something else?
Lamacchia: Sellers will suffer. That’s my biggest concern. In addition to that, I am also concerned about the business I receive from Zillow. Secondarily.
I’m not always on Zillow’s side. I’ve been in conflict with them off and on for years. Now we are their customers. From 2018 to 2022, I didn’t even do business with Zillow. We have been offered Zillow Flex for years. we said no.
So I understand some of Robert’s points and his concerns about the power that Zillow has. I’m concerned about that too. However, I do not agree with the opinion that securities companies should buy up large quantities of such products. I understand that there are one-off sellers here and there. But what he’s talking about is dismantling the system.
You’ve previously said this could be the next big antitrust battle in the industry. Could you tell me more?
Mr. Lamacchia: If the system is dismantled and brokers start hoarding properties, they will inevitably find themselves in antitrust lawsuits because they are not providing access. On top of that, there’s also a fair housing lawsuit coming up.
who are we? As a brokerage owner, who gets to decide who can and cannot view our properties for sale? We shouldn’t do that.
What about the idea of exclusivity, especially in a market like Chicago where inventory is tight and there’s an argument that scarcity and exclusivity can bring more value?
LaMacchia: When inventory is very low, it’s much easier for sellers and listing brokers to get away with not getting maximum exposure. Currently, the inventory of homes for sale is increasing. As inventory grows, sellers seek maximum exposure. The same goes for listing agents.
By this fall, there will be many items for sale across the country that aren’t selling as well as they used to. Something like that happened last fall. It will be held again this fall. Things are going well. We have more in stock now than we did a year ago. Therefore, as inventory increases, it will become much more difficult and less attractive for agents, brokers, and home sellers to maintain properties in an exclusive manner.
But I want to be clear. I understand that there are one-off cases here and there. In 2010, at the age of 29, I became the #1 real estate agent in Massachusetts and sold most of the homes. I’ve sold several homes for police chiefs, county sheriffs, and news anchors. There were also some athletes. So I understand there are some edge cases where they’re a little more concerned.
But guess what happened to all those people? They went out on the open market. There may have been a little more delicacy in the approach, or there may have been delays due to preparations. Understood. But the public should list on the public market when they are ready.
Again, while I respect Robert and understand his point of view, I disagree with him on this particular issue. I think he pushed the issue too far.
And let me say one more thing. What Robert says is one thing and what Compass agents actually do on the streets are two different things. Most of the Compass agents I’ve seen, and certainly all the Anywhere brands, aren’t buying up real estate. Robert talks about it more than what’s actually happening, but maybe that’s part of his plan.
And does your position represent any of the MLSs you are affiliated with?
Lamacchia: No questions. If you have a dispute with Zillow or Zillow did something crazy and you shut down your Zillow feed, that’s okay. But if it turns out that Feed is to blame for the infuriating conflict between Compass and Zillow and what Robert is trying to do, I’m going to sue Compass and their MLS in the coming weeks, I guarantee you.
I can’t stand that. My competitors won’t get in the way of where my products are sold.
You mentioned that even for a company of sufficient size, this could cause headaches if it becomes a listing battle. What about small brokerage firms?
LaMacchia: Small brokerages are going to have a big problem. If a listing war breaks out, they will face a big problem. All the small brokerages will disappear and join all the big brokerages and we will turn into an airline. That’s exactly what James Dwiggins said.
I don’t think that will happen. I think Robert is making noise to gain influence and make his point. But I’m sure he won’t go so far as to spark a legal listing war across America. I know he’s a smart guy. He’s a smart businessman. I don’t think he would do that.
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